Thank you both for an engaging conversation that is a helpful reminder that Jesus’s message of the Kingdom of God will not be found in American politics but rather in the local communities of faith that bear witness to the Gospel.
I really enjoyed this conversation. My brother and I have been teasing out something of late. A bit of context. While he also grew up CofC in New Zealand his journey of faith had him cross the Tiber (become Catholic if you are unaware of the term). We often took about where CofC and Catholic theology, ecclesiology, praxis, etc connect and disagree, why, how, what might be the offical position verses the reality on the ground (a little harder in our tradition). He ended up studying in Rome at the Angelicum; previously a degree in philosophy and another in law. Ok, thats the set up.
Thomas Aquinas said "to love is to wish good to someone." (See full quote below, and how it came from Aristotle). As I was watching Greg and Bob talking, it was obvious they love each other. So as the other was talking, thinking out loud, grappling with ideas, making connection, polishing thoughts and a great deal more- you could see and hear this desire coming out.
So the practical implications of this seem to speak to our shared culture. If Bob and Greg did not wish to see the good in the other, then when the other made a mistake, misspoke, fumbled (and I am not saying that happened) then we have- take downs', power plays, got you, and all the other meme material out there. I have found this really helpful as I tease out its implications when I sit with people. So it might mean I have to say something that they do not want to hear, but I am only do it because I want to see the good in them.
Anyway I am enjoy the conversations, so keep up the great work.
Summa Theologiae First part of the Second part, Question 26, Article 4.
I answer that, As the Philosopher says (Rhet. ii, 4), "to love is to wish good to someone." Hence the movement of love has a twofold tendency: towards the good which a man wishes to someone (to himself or to another) and towards that to which he wishes some good. Accordingly, man has love of concupiscence towards the good that he wishes to another, and love of friendship towards him to whom he wishes good.
The whole section.
Aristotle Rhetoric 2:4
Let us now state who are the persons that men love1 or hate, and why, after we have defined love and loving. [2] Let loving, then, be defined as wishing for anyone the things which we believe to be good, for his sake but not for our own,
and procuring them for him as far as lies in our power. A friend is one who loves and is loved in return, and those who think their relationship is of this character consider themselves friends. [3] This being granted, it necessarily follows that he is a friend who shares our joy in good fortune and our sorrow in affliction, for our own sake and not for any other reason. For all men rejoice when what they desire comes to pass and are pained when the contrary happens, so that pain and pleasure are indications of their wish. [4] And those are friends who have the same ideas of good and bad, and love and hate the same persons, since they necessarily wish the same things; wherefore one who wishes for another what he wishes for himself seems to be the other's friend.
Thank you both for an engaging conversation that is a helpful reminder that Jesus’s message of the Kingdom of God will not be found in American politics but rather in the local communities of faith that bear witness to the Gospel.
I really enjoyed this conversation. My brother and I have been teasing out something of late. A bit of context. While he also grew up CofC in New Zealand his journey of faith had him cross the Tiber (become Catholic if you are unaware of the term). We often took about where CofC and Catholic theology, ecclesiology, praxis, etc connect and disagree, why, how, what might be the offical position verses the reality on the ground (a little harder in our tradition). He ended up studying in Rome at the Angelicum; previously a degree in philosophy and another in law. Ok, thats the set up.
Thomas Aquinas said "to love is to wish good to someone." (See full quote below, and how it came from Aristotle). As I was watching Greg and Bob talking, it was obvious they love each other. So as the other was talking, thinking out loud, grappling with ideas, making connection, polishing thoughts and a great deal more- you could see and hear this desire coming out.
So the practical implications of this seem to speak to our shared culture. If Bob and Greg did not wish to see the good in the other, then when the other made a mistake, misspoke, fumbled (and I am not saying that happened) then we have- take downs', power plays, got you, and all the other meme material out there. I have found this really helpful as I tease out its implications when I sit with people. So it might mean I have to say something that they do not want to hear, but I am only do it because I want to see the good in them.
Anyway I am enjoy the conversations, so keep up the great work.
Summa Theologiae First part of the Second part, Question 26, Article 4.
I answer that, As the Philosopher says (Rhet. ii, 4), "to love is to wish good to someone." Hence the movement of love has a twofold tendency: towards the good which a man wishes to someone (to himself or to another) and towards that to which he wishes some good. Accordingly, man has love of concupiscence towards the good that he wishes to another, and love of friendship towards him to whom he wishes good.
The whole section.
Aristotle Rhetoric 2:4
Let us now state who are the persons that men love1 or hate, and why, after we have defined love and loving. [2] Let loving, then, be defined as wishing for anyone the things which we believe to be good, for his sake but not for our own,
and procuring them for him as far as lies in our power. A friend is one who loves and is loved in return, and those who think their relationship is of this character consider themselves friends. [3] This being granted, it necessarily follows that he is a friend who shares our joy in good fortune and our sorrow in affliction, for our own sake and not for any other reason. For all men rejoice when what they desire comes to pass and are pained when the contrary happens, so that pain and pleasure are indications of their wish. [4] And those are friends who have the same ideas of good and bad, and love and hate the same persons, since they necessarily wish the same things; wherefore one who wishes for another what he wishes for himself seems to be the other's friend.